ECHO: Claire and Lord John (Part 1)
Below are some comments that I posted on Compuserve earlier this week, regarding the events in the last part of the book between Claire and Lord John.
* * * SPOILER WARNING * * *
Don't read further if you haven't yet finished the book! There are some major spoilers here.
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Here are my reactions after re-reading Chapter 93 ("A Series of Short, Sharp Shocks"). And I should preface this by saying, I really, really disliked the Claire-marrying-Lord-John subplot the first time I read it. (And said so, in no uncertain terms, to Diana when I first read it, and again on Compuserve recently.) The comments below are from my first re-read, when I made a deliberate effort to go as slowly and carefully through this part of the book as I could manage, and try to keep an open mind.
All right. I made it through this chapter, with my equanimity still intact. Some things I see now, that I didn't before:
Lord John is obviously shattered by the news. Walking the streets for hours (p. 769) - we know from BOTB that he walks like that when he's in shock, or when he needs time to think (after Percy's betrayal, for example).
"[Lord John] wasn't in the habit of lying to himself." (p. 770) - He knows perfectly well what he's feeling and why. Unlike Claire, he doesn't seem to spend any time in denial (or maybe he did, and we didn't see it?)
"But now he'd lost himself." That's a line I did not notice on the first reading, and I think it's significant. Is his relationship with Jamie Fraser so critical to his own self-image, to his own sense of who he is, that losing Jamie really means he's lost HIMSELF? If we were speaking of Claire, I'd say yes, instantly, with no reservations. It surprises me a little that John also feels that way. I knew he loved Jamie, of course, but I didn't realize before that his feelings ran that deep.
I suppose I always felt that Claire loved Jamie more than Lord John did, but I see now that I may have been letting my own feelings get in the way, reading something into the (overall) story that isn't, in fact, there. Now I'm beginning to grasp -- for the first time -- that Lord John might well love Jamie just as much as Claire does. That's not a thought I've been willing to entertain until now. Partly from sheer stubbornness, I suppose <g>, because I love Jamie and Claire's relationship SO much that I tend to resist -- strongly -- the notion that anyone else could love Jamie as much as Claire does. I think that's one reason why I reacted SO negatively to this storyline the first time, before I even got to the sex scene.
And it's not as though I don't KNOW how many times John has demonstrated his love for Jamie, his willingness to do absolutely anything he could for both Jamie and Jamie's family. Sending Jamie to Helwater in the first place, taking Willie to raise as his own son, looking after Brianna in DRUMS when Jamie could not, the many gifts he's sent them over the years, etc. I knew all that, and I STILL didn't believe that Lord John could possibly love Jamie as much as Claire does. Now, I'm wavering. I'm starting to see it. And I think I might be willing to be convinced.
Oh, and speaking of gifts -- about that medical chest. Reading the scene again this evening (pp. 772-773), I can see that from Lord John's point of view, this is (as many people on Compuserve have said) a touching example of his thoughtfulness, trying to give Claire what she needs for her medical practice. Somebody brought up the parallel of Lord John at Ardsmuir, giving Jamie "light and air and horses", and I do agree with that, now that I've taken the time to read this part in a calmer frame of mind (and, more importantly, to see the situation from Lord John's point of view rather than my own!)
As for the idea of Lord John marrying Claire in the first place, I still don't like it, but I do see the necessity of it, given the situation (and as I said before, I do see the parallel between Claire being forced to wed Jamie to escape BJR, and Claire being forced to wed Lord John to escape arrest).
Sorry to go on at such length, but I thought I owed it to Diana, in particular, to try to give a fairly detailed explanation of what I'm seeing on the re-read. I think the discussions on Compuserve are helping, immensely, to put these events into perspective.
* * * SPOILER WARNING * * *
Don't read further if you haven't yet finished the book! There are some major spoilers here.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
Here are my reactions after re-reading Chapter 93 ("A Series of Short, Sharp Shocks"). And I should preface this by saying, I really, really disliked the Claire-marrying-Lord-John subplot the first time I read it. (And said so, in no uncertain terms, to Diana when I first read it, and again on Compuserve recently.) The comments below are from my first re-read, when I made a deliberate effort to go as slowly and carefully through this part of the book as I could manage, and try to keep an open mind.
All right. I made it through this chapter, with my equanimity still intact. Some things I see now, that I didn't before:
Lord John is obviously shattered by the news. Walking the streets for hours (p. 769) - we know from BOTB that he walks like that when he's in shock, or when he needs time to think (after Percy's betrayal, for example).
"[Lord John] wasn't in the habit of lying to himself." (p. 770) - He knows perfectly well what he's feeling and why. Unlike Claire, he doesn't seem to spend any time in denial (or maybe he did, and we didn't see it?)
"But now he'd lost himself." That's a line I did not notice on the first reading, and I think it's significant. Is his relationship with Jamie Fraser so critical to his own self-image, to his own sense of who he is, that losing Jamie really means he's lost HIMSELF? If we were speaking of Claire, I'd say yes, instantly, with no reservations. It surprises me a little that John also feels that way. I knew he loved Jamie, of course, but I didn't realize before that his feelings ran that deep.
I suppose I always felt that Claire loved Jamie more than Lord John did, but I see now that I may have been letting my own feelings get in the way, reading something into the (overall) story that isn't, in fact, there. Now I'm beginning to grasp -- for the first time -- that Lord John might well love Jamie just as much as Claire does. That's not a thought I've been willing to entertain until now. Partly from sheer stubbornness, I suppose <g>, because I love Jamie and Claire's relationship SO much that I tend to resist -- strongly -- the notion that anyone else could love Jamie as much as Claire does. I think that's one reason why I reacted SO negatively to this storyline the first time, before I even got to the sex scene.
And it's not as though I don't KNOW how many times John has demonstrated his love for Jamie, his willingness to do absolutely anything he could for both Jamie and Jamie's family. Sending Jamie to Helwater in the first place, taking Willie to raise as his own son, looking after Brianna in DRUMS when Jamie could not, the many gifts he's sent them over the years, etc. I knew all that, and I STILL didn't believe that Lord John could possibly love Jamie as much as Claire does. Now, I'm wavering. I'm starting to see it. And I think I might be willing to be convinced.
Oh, and speaking of gifts -- about that medical chest. Reading the scene again this evening (pp. 772-773), I can see that from Lord John's point of view, this is (as many people on Compuserve have said) a touching example of his thoughtfulness, trying to give Claire what she needs for her medical practice. Somebody brought up the parallel of Lord John at Ardsmuir, giving Jamie "light and air and horses", and I do agree with that, now that I've taken the time to read this part in a calmer frame of mind (and, more importantly, to see the situation from Lord John's point of view rather than my own!)
As for the idea of Lord John marrying Claire in the first place, I still don't like it, but I do see the necessity of it, given the situation (and as I said before, I do see the parallel between Claire being forced to wed Jamie to escape BJR, and Claire being forced to wed Lord John to escape arrest).
Sorry to go on at such length, but I thought I owed it to Diana, in particular, to try to give a fairly detailed explanation of what I'm seeing on the re-read. I think the discussions on Compuserve are helping, immensely, to put these events into perspective.
I have always thought that Lord John loved Jamie as much as Claire did. You mentionned several proves of it. One prove that is above all for me is that he gives Hector's ring to Jamie without any hesitation nor explanation (just before Bonnet execution).
The other point is that I am not scandalized at all that Claire and Lord John end up in bed. They both are at the paroxysm of pain and mourning. They have cryed, they have drunk. They are the ones that can share their grief. I think it was not deliberate, it was only a question of getting comfort from each other.
It’s not the marriage, understand 💯. It’s not the mourning that lead to drunken sex. It’s LJG pursuit of Claire on at least two occasions. Both times he searched her out. The first time was in a drunken stupor, were either one able to give consent by today’s standards? The answer would be “no.” Being that he has been portrayed as a gentleman and saying, “I will not be grieving alone tonight,” sent the hairs on the back of my neck raised. A gentleman wouldn’t go to a ladies room unless he was wanting something, gay or not.
The second flag was the peek a boo moment the following morning. If they had sex due to a drunken moment, why did he need to see her naked? He got what he desired the night before. I do understand Claire’s rebuttal of seeing him. It was a tit for tat issue. He didn’t need to look upon her if the act was simply out of grief. To me that changed the whole dynamics and intent of LJG.
The third flag was his reappearing for another excursion a few weeks later. He is seeking her out, not her seeking him. I love how his approach. Basically I’m willing if you are… the fourth was when he brought his attention to his endowment, pouting like a baby awaiting for a happy ending. Claire gives in.
That’s when I lost all respect for LJG. I have questioned his sexuality for awhile. He was jealous of Claire, but was overly jealous of Jamie. His persuit of Claire with the death announcement of Jamie was way out of character for someone who loves Jamie. He had resources at his disposal and he knew there was more than one ship living France and didn’t check. Marries her and didn’t do a true verification of ship manifests. Being a military man, word of mouth doesn’t cut it. Understand Claire was in trouble… marrying her doesn’t raise any questions. Did the drunk sex have to happen? LJG to me would’ve a true hero without it. I honestly believe jealousy of both Claire and Jamie’s relationship. The consummation of the marriage, to me, proves it. Yet we will make him a hero. I guess we have to stir the pot and somehow, in the end, we will find they were all connected.
Is it things screwed up due to grief added with alcohol becomes more forgivable nowadays??
Where is the bond of Jamie and Claire, which has been remarkably and beautifully showcased over the last years?? To me, its a very huge psychological impact Jamie has to deal with (of course not by himself, but with a very honest and undoubtedly assurance given from Claire thru their ever lasting promises n justified with intimacy passion.)
U r definitely right that there are some new understanding between Claire and LJB that make him uneasy and would triggered him off spontaneously, at any suspicious occasion. All this are the true reaction from a man who truly in love with you, any politeness or generosity would be too hypocrite, not to mention for Scott highlander like Jamie.
So, LJG has to take it as Jamie was reacting honestly from his great love.
However, i started to regret myself or more preciously, getting suspicious on the storyline's sensibility and credibility. These feeling of being a dump fool all started from watching season 7 episode 11, when Claire sleep with LjG.
I was like jaw dropping and my heart was crunching and screaming, hysterically specifically on 2 scenes, which caught me in nightmare and cold sweating for a few weeks. Those 2 scenes had really make me stopped reading the story book instantly. I don't even want to know where it's either. I think i got the phobia of it, not to exaggerate.
Scene 1
How, on earth, my dearest Claire will have sex with the bloody Englishman LJG who's her beloved husband's best friend in just a unreasonably short time,!!!!!
It was like the whole storyline becomes soap opera instantly, cheap and tasteless. The whole character of Claire for the past 10 yrs has been collapsed, horribly twisted as needed, especially at such tragical moment. Where is the integrity and faith that Jamie treasure the most?? What's puzzled me is that a moment before, Claire was still aware enough to yell at LJG that Jamie was her, nobody can steal him from her, immediately after, both were shoving into a so called violent, awkward love making night like they had decided not to mourn Jamie alone!!! My eyes were popping out and totally speechless and giggled in disgraced.
Scene 2
The next morning's intimacy conversation btw Claire and LJG. The whole thing really make me feel cheated and disgraceful if i choose to believe that, they were just making love out of over grief or so called mourning Jamie's death.A part from Claire has curiosity about LJG's sexual history and LJG's skittish apology, the deer story appeared the most hilarious comfort that LJG wishes Claire to believe and get enlighten from it. (Actually, my eyes was in tears and red, my emotions was outraged and anguished with disappointment. I felt completely spend and despaired. What a waste!!! What a fxxking waste!!! (Not to mention in the story book, Claire and LJG admire each other naked body, and Claire even praised LJG warrior's body; and Claire gave LJG a good hand jxb when LJG proudly presented his body to her in month later)
What turned out amused to me the most was many viewers blamed Jamie for being too violent on LJG after being told when he returned. I started questioning myself whether am i too naive to acknowledge what the true love is ???Being righteous upon ppl telling you they have carnal knowledge about your wife??? Being thankful for ur best friend for saving ur wife by making love to her??? Or being forgiven for what Claire said, LJG has more courage and gave something for her to hit(my god!! really Claire) or else she will remain too numb, and LJG was just timely to perform a heavenly triage she desperately needed???
Honestly, im more sympathy for Jamie, for these unnecessary mess he has to dealt for the rest of his life.
For me, i just quit. Enough is enough.